What in the EV are We Talking About? with Perry Husband Part 2

Welcome to The Baseball Awakening Podcast, where we dive into the raw, unfiltered, unsexy side of player development.

Guest Bio:

Perry Husband is a pioneer in the world of baseball science as he introduced many of the modern hitting metrics to include exit velocity and launch angle. Perry, also discovery through the discovery of effective velocity there were many pitching breakthrough to include the EV tunnel , located adjusted speed, and many other. Perry also had written a handful of books and design a handful of programs which can be found on hittingisaguess.com

Twitter:Perry Husband

Website: Hitting is a Guess

Summary:

On this episode, Host Geoff Rottmayer sits down with Perry Husband of hittingisaguess.com, where we discussed his approach to coaching the player first, which will coach the hitter automatically.

Show Notes:

In Part 2 of this Conversation Perry talks about:

  • What EV tunnel and why its important to understand.
  • Understanding how movement pitch changes pitch speed.
  • Talk about how to develop the EV tunnel and EV pitch.
  • Talk about examples of the best pitchers who uses EV.
  • Talks about how more high school, and college programs have turns to EV focus.
  • Talks about what crossover means in terms of EV pitching and how most make this mistakes because they don’t understand.
  • As a lefty vs righty the EV tunnels and EV speed and thought process is different.
  • How essentially hitter are basically sitting on speed over pitches.
  • Talks about how training for this is going to change once pitchers use EV principles.
  • Developing game plan base on EV.
  • Why paying attention is good but does not mean you understand what they are doing.
  • Littler guys are hitting baseballs harder than big guys.
  • How to implement Ev into training practices.

Website: www.baseballawakening.com

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Email Address: geoff@baseballawakening.com

Transcribe:

Geoff: Today’s show is part two of our conversation with Mr. Perry Husband and we’re talking, hitting, pitching EV effect of velocity.

Intro: Welcome to another episode of The Baseball Awakening Podcast where we dive into the raw, unfiltered, unsexy side of player development. Get ready for some knowledge bombs with your host, Geoff Rottmayer

Geoff:  Welcome to the Baseball Awakening Podcast, I am Geoff Rottmayer Can you our conversation with Mr. Perry Husband hittingisaguess.com, a pioneer in the world of baseball, science. Yesterday we ended the conversation talking about what EV effective velocity the block to the year and why is important at the hitter and a pitcher to understand the law. Let’s continue our conversation. You had gotten into talking about tunneling the why don’t you talk a little bit about what that is and what it means?

Perry: Well, a tunnel, an eve tunnel, and there’s a lot of people out there talking about tunnels that have kind of borrowed that so to speak. Right? But, but pitch tunnels from an Ed perspective means that when the picture, let’s go have a fastball. Let’s say he throws his fastball it, it creates a line and it’s on two planes, right? It’s on a horizontal plane and it’s on a vertical plane. Right. And so one of the first things we did was a test to see what hitters could see and the first thing that hitters can see within about five feet out of your hand is where the balls going up, down in or out. So once the fastballs are thrown your mind sees this line and now when pitches thrown that is a different type of pits, like a slider, then the slider, if it stays in that same line. And, and when I say the line, I mean and that’s why it was called a tunnel instead of a plane because the tunnel means that it, if you were to create an actual tunnel, both of those pitches would be coming out of it. They would, they would both be on the same vertical line plane and on the same horizontal plane. So they look exactly like coming out of the hand. Right? And they traveled that way for about a third of the way to the plate. And in any pitch that does, that is what I would refer to as an EV tunnel pitch hasn’t a tunnel. So the typical picture, um, that throws a fastball, let’s just say I’m up and in. And then if it’s a right-handed pitcher with, with a right-handed batter, and then right-handed pitcher throws the ball up and in and then they come back and they throw a slider down a way. When, when they let go of both of those pitches, they’re going to look really similar to each other, if not exactly the same. The pitchers that are really good, like a Scherzer, his slider and his changeup and his fastball look absolutely identical when they come out of the hand with only slight point changes. Everything else is, looks looks the same to the hitter, but they go to three different parts of the strike zone at three different speeds. That’s what a tunnel just as basically the idea that pitches look like coming out of the hand. That’s good. That’s the easiest way to say it. And sometimes they’re really good and some tunnels are really bad. There are some tunnels that are actually killing pitchers and they don’t even know it because they haven’t met the wrong eve speeds.

Geoff: Oh so its measure off Speed.

Perry: Yeah, because to be an eve tunnel, a tunnel, you have to make sure that there are six miles an hour of ed speed between the two pitches, so we’re getting pretty complex, but I’m cc Sabathia is a great example against right-handed pitchers back in the day he threw 95 96 and when he throws 90, 95 up and into a right-handed batter, the effect of speed is really 100 because it’s up and in and that’s the extreme that takes the most time away from the hitter. He has to hit it the third of the stout in front and so, but he also throws a sinker that at about 92 that looks identical coming out of the hand and then the four-seam or save straighter and the sinker moves away from the right hand about her. So it moves to the middle of waste. Part of the strike zone. So 92 turns to about 88. So he against right-handed batters. He’s got a 188 that look exactly the same and they’re both fastballs. That’s a huge advantage to a pitcher. So now if you flip over to the left batters box, now that same fastball that was up an end to the left or to the right, he is now up in a way to the left and now when he throws that sinker, same tunnel, it looks exactly the same to this hitter, but now that 92 moves to middle end to the left and now it’s 95, so he’s throwing the first fastball at 95 is 95 and then the sinker is now 95, so he’s actually throwing two pitches that have the same reaction time and doesn’t even know it to lefthanded batters. So a leftie batter that sits on a fastball up and away, and then he throws the sinker middle end will run right into that. He might not even know that it’s a different pitch. He just swings the bat at the up and away and that other one runs into his bat. So that’s a really bad evie tunnel. That one is, that one hurts him and most pitchers don’t even know when they’re doing that.

Geoff: Yeah, so as a pitcher what does, what does that mean in terms of how do they develop that? How do they kind of start working on the concept?

Perry: Well, there’s a ton of ways to do it. There is, um, you can overlay pitches with video to find out where your ideal tunnels are. You can, um, now that some of the technology has gotten better, they actually do 3d versions of the tunnel, um, which is something that my patent kind of covers. So we’ll, we’ll be talking about that at some point, but at the end of the day, it’s about learning when your pitches look like the easiest way for a normal person to do it that’s teaching it is to videotape from that center field camera view. Um, but you see it every night on the Internet. You see guys doing overlays. Um, there are about 10 years late to the party, but that was when I was doing it. You couldn’t, it wasn’t legal major league baseball would shut you down if you, if you showed anything like that on social media, but somehow they changed that and guys have gotten pretty famous doing, doing overlays, but we were doing overlays with Carlos back in 2009, um, in order to show him what pitches were hiding and what pitches where we’re not. So we, that’s, that’s, that was um, how kind of I got my Ph.D. and in an effective velocity at the big league level was working for Carlos in 2009. Helping him to his game plans every night based on envy.

Geoff: Right, so talk about that a little bit. What is the process like to develop me a game plan based on, EV

Perry: well, if I’m facing cc Sabathia, then the first thing I got to do is, is figure out that 95 up in a way is the same as 95 middle ends. And so I get two for one if I understand that. And then the, then you start doing some, some math to figure out how often he does things and how, how, what’s the likelihood that he’s going to throw a pitch that looks like this, but ended up out of the strike zone. And so you, you look at data and you combine that with pitcher deception and I’m going to look at about probably 70 plus different things before I come up with a game plan that makes sense. But when, when you look at those 70 plus things, it is super as to exactly what your game plan should be. Every pitcher in the big leagues is making big mistakes when it comes to, um, to their game plan. There, there’s, there are holes in every major league pitchers approach with just a few exceptions that are really difficult. Scherzer, um, Kershaw volt. Now he’s become very predictable. Um, there, there are tons of pitchers in the big leagues that would have zero holes if they knew exactly what they were doing. But when you, when you don’t know what you’re doing, you’re bound to have a lot of crossovers. You’re bound to throw. When you move your fastball, for example, up up and then down in a way, middle in, middle away, every time he’d throw those pitches, you’re changing the speed, right? Maybe the best way to think about is like this. If you were had a young pitcher, would you tell them to throw the slider up and then down in a way, middle Middleland, middle a, you know it’s the is designed to do one thing right to look like a fastball and move away from a right-handed batter. If you’re writing the picture, so the slider has a very, very distinct purpose. It’s supposed to be a medium speed pitch and it’s supposed to look like a fastball and it’s supposed to go to a lower part of the strike zone, so you wouldn’t tell that pitcher to throw the slider up, right? That’s hanging as they say, but we do tell them to take the fastball and throw it all over the strike zone because that messes with the hitter’s timing. In reality, you’re actually helping to hit her dramatically by doing that because the fastball is called a fastball for a reason. It’s supposed to be fast, but when you throw it away or down, it’s no longer fast. It’s, it’s the slower version of a fastball. So it really, a fastball down is hanging just like a slider up is hanging. The fastball down, in fact, is you’re four times more likely to hit a fastball down hard than you are to hit a hanging changeup. Imagine that you, you can hang a slider and I can’t remember the exact numbers I did this study. Um, and it was, um, one of them was four times. One of them was three times and one of them was two times with the off-speed pitches, but the worst, the worst was. And let’s just call it a curveball. I think the hanging curveball, um, in fact, no, I think that the curveball was for. Don’t quote me on this, but it basically, if you hang a curveball, you are at least two times more likely to get away with it than you are. If you hang a fastball at the bottom of the strike zone, bottom of the cell, on the bottom of the zones, fastballs get hit with the highest exit velocity, the most homeowners, the most hard hit balls happen when when hitters have a chance to see the fastball in an area that they expect and it’s going at the the the line that they expect, it’s going downhill like their swings going uphill, so that’s an accident waiting to happen and yet every front office has a 20 guys in there saying that the best place to live is at the bottom of the strike zone.

Geoff: Right?

Perry: I’m not sure what metric they’re using to see that, but it’s what led to the homeowner explosion.

Geoff: More of the college and the high school level and they’re kind of all living in the. In the, in that little outside corner too.

Perry: Not all of them. There’s a lot of them now that are, that are focused. I would say probably a three-quarters of the college, High-Level College have been introduced to effective velocity and they understand it to some degree, but they’re not black belts. Virtually, virtually everyone in, in baseball at every level understands the effect of philosophy at the sexy level, right? The the tunnel tunnels, tunnels are easy for anybody to understand. Um, but they, they don’t understand the different nuances about it. They just know that if you hide a pitch, it’s going to end up being harder for guys to react to. But unless you add in the Ed speed and like with our CC Sabathia example, you don’t know whether that tunnel was good or bad. That tunnel actually hurts him against lefties and he doesn’t know it. Maybe now I don’t know, but at that point, he didn’t know it because he, he continued to do it. There’s actually a bunch of lefties that are in that same boat I’m Felix do bring, did the same thing. There were many guys that had that same scenario. Cliff Lee did that same thing to let these two writers. It was devastating to let these. It was not advisable. So it, it’s at the end of the day, there’s a ton of high school college coaches that understand evie. I’ve been doing this for a long time now since. Oh, five is when I released the books before and guys are all over the place. I’m one of the first guys that I. In fact, the first guy that I introduced it to was Tom House because I wanted him to punch holes in it for me. And Tom was like, no, this is why a beer keg me could pitch in the big leagues is, is this, is this, you’re right on the money. And he, he actually was really good friends with Bobby Valentine. They spent time together in the big leagues, I think on the ranger staff. He was the pitching coach when Bobby was a manager at one point when they had Nolan Ryan and he, he, uh, at that time, Bobby Valentine was over in Japan and he hadn’t won a championship over there yet. But Tom went over there and introduced pitch tunnels and Bobby won his first, his first, whatever the, whatever it’s called over there, um, national title over there. And that was the next year after. That was the first year of the world baseball classic. And the world baseball classic, if I would have told you before it started that Japan and Korea, we’re going to be in the top two out of the three top pitching teams in the world. I, you, I would have been laughed out of baseball, but they were, they, they were, I think first and third in the best pitching staff in the world. Baseball classic that year because every picture had tunnels. Every pitcher was hiding pitches that Koji who Ihara on that team, I think. And um, Matsuzaka and every guy had pitched tunnels. They were hiding pitches. They didn’t know the the the ins and outs of it. But that’s, that’s uh, that’s what, that’s how this works. And at the college level, high school level, evie is rampant all over the place. Everybody’s using it. There, they’re trying to. Anyway, they’re using the version that they understand. That’s the hard part to get anybody to go deeper than that because some of the experts in the world of Internet gurus are there telling everyone that effective velocity is not, doesn’t really work because the speeds there, it doesn’t add or subtract speed as much as the theory says, and so you can forget about the portion of it. It’s just about tunnels, but part of it is actually the most important part. It’s the part that I’m. It’s the landing. It’s if you don’t if you don’t understand how speed works in the strike zone, you’re doomed to make a bunch of crossover mistakes like the can you define crossover? Mistake, throw a fastball at 96, but I really. I throw it down in a way. It’s really 91 and I throw my cutter at 88, but I throw it. I’m a middle end and now it’s 91, so I’m throwing pitches that the radar gun says our eight miles an hour apart, but in reality, they’re exactly the same fact. The cutter to actually being faster than that fastball. If I threw it to the opinion part of the strike zone, so a crossover means when the, when you’re faster pitches getting slower and your solar pitches getting faster, um, look at it like this, this, this, this, this one I’ve had a lot of success with making people understand picture of yourself as a defensive back and you, your job is to cover two receivers, okay? And I’m a quarterback and I’m going to, I’m going to send my receivers out 10 yards apart right next to you. So where are you going to go to cover both of those guys? You’re, you’re, you’re, you’re most likely going to go exactly in the center, right? Because by the time I take the football back and start leaning towards the Guy I’m going to throw it to you can quickly take a step or two and be there in plenty of time, right? So it’s a no brainer that you’re exactly in the middle when you’re. When I send out guys 10 yards apart, so now I send out guys 20 yards apart, right? You’re still going to go in the middle, but now you know you can’t quite get there as quick. And so now there’s gonna be a tendency for you to lean a little bit. So now you do some stats, some stat work, and you realize I go to the guy on the left a little more often, so you’re going to kind of probably lean in that direction, right? And then do the best you can to try to cover both guys. And then now I’m going to send them out at 30 yards apart. Now there’s no way that you can cover both of those guys. And so what’s going to end up happening is you’re going to go to a predictable place on the field based on, um, what your assignment is. And if you’re assigned to cover two guys, then it’s really difficult when they start to get more than 15 yards apart. So now picture you’re the same defensive back. And I sent out three receivers, but I send them all in your general area. Like one guy’s going to do a post pattern, the other guy’s going to be on the other side of the field, but he’s going to come across the field heading towards you at the big league level. That’s what the crossover is, is is the quarterback is sending all these guys right to you who writes to you and in an area where you can cover three guys, even though you’re, you’re 30 yards downfield and you’re just standing there, they’re literally going to throw their three receivers right in your general vicinity. That’s what’s happening at the big league level right now is, is because they don’t understand effective velocity, speed. They keep throwing pitches that are moving towards where the hitter is defending. That’s probably the best way to describe it. I don’t know if I don’t.

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Geoff: Yeah, so I, I, yeah, I think. I think that paints a good picture. So really when we kind of sit down and kind of look at it, it’s the speed that we’re talking about maximum or movement. But speed.

Perry: Yeah, the movement changes the speed, but it changes it either positively or negatively. Right, right. It’s everything. Everything depends on the hitter.

Geoff: Right? So if I’m a hitter and I’m looking at a certain speed and the pitch in that speed, I’m hitting it,

Perry: well you’re going to have the best chance. You’ve still got the hard part of hitting his. Sure. No matter what happens, you’re going to fail 60 percent or more.

Geoff: Right? So I guess I got the question is, if you’re sitting on a. you’re writing more than you are a pitch.

Perry: Yes. You’re right. On the money is hitters are doing right now is they’re living in a speed range and pitchers are throwing a lot of pitches in that speed range a lot and pretty soon they’re going to stop it and when they stop it, that philosophy is going to not have any idea what to do because right now they’re just swinging up and, and they’re getting a lot of pitches that are just going down and they’re going down in that speed range that they’re the most prepared to hit.

Geoff: You had mentioned something earlier that when, when they figured it out at the big league level, hitting going to get much harder than it already is. So what, so what, what do we do now? What are hitters do when they figured this out?

Perry: Well, they have to train completely different. When I made the discovery of every with 10 way back, I mean it was actually a little bit earlier than that, but um, once you discovered v and you understand, all of a sudden you start hearing the things like we first started talking about getting your foot down early. I see the ball deep. You know, you know that none of those things work really, they, they, they really don’t work anymore unless pitchers are, are going to cooperate fully with you and throw pitches in your speed range in your area. And um, so you have to start training differently. You have to. What happened with Carlos was Carlos was one of those guys, he was a car, hit a guy and our first conversation was pretty funny. I’m trying to explain to him what he is and, and he’s like, you know, I just could never imagine myself sitting on a pitch. And I said, he goes, I’m just to see it hit a guy. I said, okay. So I’ve done a little research and, and in o two counts [inaudible] that’s the most reactionary counts, right? Where you have to, you have to see it and hit it, right? You’re, you’re hitting, oh, 85 in those counts. So. And you’re leading Lincoln strikeouts. So really are you good at it and hit it because those are the most reactionary counts and you’re not that great in those counts. And you’re swinging and missing a lot. So in reality, you’re not quite as good at seeing it and hitting it. And so my question is, what do you have to lose when you when you look at a guy like Roger Clemens, he had about the reverse of that. He had an old five batting average in o two. One, two counts. I can’t remember what the study was. It was like three years or it might’ve been more than three years, but I think it was three years. Guys said [inaudible] 85 when he gets them to an o to count. And so I asked Carlos, what do you think he’s going to throw? He’s going to throw a slider, a split change up the fastball. So where’s he going to throw the fastball is going to elevate it. Okay, well what? What’s he going to do with the slider? It’s going to be down. Is it going to be in the strike zone? Ever know he’s never going to make a mistake without hardly ever. How about the split? Now it’s going to be down. So of those three, what can you hit? And he said, well, none of them because I don’t hit the fastball up very well. I said, well, what if you hunted it? What if you sat on the fastball up now? What would those pitches that are at the bottom of the zone look like? And so you would start taking those pitches and you would start hitting the pitch at the top of the strike zone because you’re expecting your ambushing it. So immediately I’d rather have an Ode to count with Roger Clemens that have an old account because I got no idea what he’s going to do. Oh, but I do know that when he gets to Otu, what’s going to happen? And so I have a big advantage if I understand that and I’m to strike out anyway. So what? It doesn’t, it doesn’t hurt me in any way to, to think about that completely differently. And so that made a lot of sense to him. And he actually got better during 2009. His strikeouts went down 25 percent. His batting average went up 25 percent. And his, his chase rate outside the strike zone went down two percent. Meaning he was already great, he didn’t chase very often, he was like in the Joey Vato 20 percent chase rate and he went down to 18 during that period and he hit a homer every eight and a half of that. So his ability to be 100, 100, 100 percent on time with 100 percent of his, his mechanical efficiency that happens way more often and yet he chased less and he struck out less. So it’s, that’s, that’s what a hitter has to do is they have to understand what they’re up against because you cannot cover everything. You can’t cover the whole zone at all. Those speeds to like trying to cover for receivers all over the field. You can’t, it’s physically impossible.

Geoff: Need to start paying attention to them, you know, at the professional level and the college level, big data to help them. No, but these younger guys, gotta start paying attention and learning until they get to the level they’ve got to learn to kind of pay attention.

Perry: Yeah. And it’s more than that because you could watch Roger Clemens to go about his business and still have no idea what he’s doing and still have no idea how to, how to combat that. You have to think about it from a completely different perspective in order to really understand how to use speed in a way that’s going to help you the most.

Geoff: You said something earlier yesterday that a guy could possibly hit a home run if they wanted to and if they would develop a better plan. So can you talk a little bit about what? What do you mean by the? How can a guy hit 100 rounds,

Perry: judge who has swing things that aren’t ideal and primarily that just means is your swing plane is his way to upward. So he’s going to crush fastballs down sliders that are heading down curve balls that are heading down, but fastballs that are flat. He’s going to struggle with that. Same with a bunch of other guys, but he has the ability to hit a ball at 75 percent of his max and hit a homer. So if he were to max out his everything, and I’m not saying that he’s that far away, but I do think there are players. Um, obviously sell Garcia hit a ball at 1:25, um, and judges Max is 1:22. Kevin Kiermaier, I think it went at one slash 26. Um, and so when you tell me that less strong hitters have higher exit velocity than him. My own answer to that is, you know, I just don’t think so. I think. I think he’s, his approach is making him not square up the fastest pitches. In other words, this is one of those things that makes me crazy. There was a study done, there was a not know Stephanie done. I’m sorry. There was a, somebody noticed that Jean Carlos Stanton kept hitting all these off-speed pitches at Max speed. Right? His maximum exit velocity was almost always on an 80 or 79 or 83 miles an hour pitch. And so they concluded, well, if, if all these pitches are being hit, the highest exit velocity is happening at low-velocity pitches, then the speed of the pitch doesn’t really matter. In other words, the old adage that the harder comes in, harder it goes out, is false, which is ludicrous to say what that, what’s happening with Giancarlo Stanton, if you look at his data, he never hits a ball at 95 miles an hour up an end anywhere near his maximum swing efficiency. So if you look at that number 100, 100, 100 percent on time with 100 percent of his swing efficiency, when he gets a fastball in, he’s about 70 percent on time with about 70 percent of his maximum. And so he’s hitting at that fastball in [inaudible] 77. And you had major league baseball is looking at that because he does that and he’s at the elite level. That’s the best way to do it. And the answer to that is not any, but hell no, that’s ridiculous. So if, if he were to change his philosophy and understand who it was that was going to pound him inside, and he sat on that pitch when it made the most sense and he actually squared that pitch up at 100 miles an hour, you would see Jean Carlo and Aaron judge lift the bar. Again. In other words, the because the speed is greater, they’re going to have greater exit velocities when they squirt her up faster pitches, they just don’t. They don’t square up faster pitches because it’s not their game plan. That’s how data can lead you down a rabbit hole. If you just look at this data and you draw a conclusion based on that without testing it. Nobody tested Jean Carlo stands at 70, 80, 90 and 100 miles an hour pitches and said he actually does hit the add on our pitches harder. Nobody did that because it wouldn’t happen like that. If they tested all those things, they would find that the hundred miles an hour walls that he hit were in the 1:28 exit velocity range. And that’s. That’s one of the things that makes me crazy about the game is data is it’s only as good as the interpretation of data is not science by itself. Data is not science, it’s just all it is is it allows you and I to create theories about stuff, but until you test it, it’s just a theory and that’s why is really the only science when it comes to pitching sequencing that there is. Because I tested every aspect of it way before I went to the major league databases to see that it was right. I tested her and part of it. That’s why I know it’s Gonna Change. I know that it’s only a matter of time before major league players start to really realize what they’re leaving on the table by not understanding the that yeah, well hitters will find out really quickly because when what they’ve been doing stops working like it did in the world series in the playoffs and saw a lot of it. All those really great bats went away except the few that were. Um, the one thing you saw in the playoffs also was that the Boston Red Sox had the best office because they’re one of their guys, Tim, Tim hires understand TV, he’s training in a different way. You’re looking at things in a different way and that’s the one-off events you saw that didn’t really go that far away from their norm. Everybody else fell off the planet.

Geoff:  If I’m a guided listening and I want to know, obviously you have your book in your program, which we can find on hittingisaguess.com And I highly recommend it. If I were to take something away from this, what, what’s my action item to start implementing by into my, my thought process in my training. So, you know, as a pitcher I need to learn about evs, be. And then as a hitter, I need to, I need to understand kind of [inaudible] speed.

Perry: that’s a loaded question. What an hour more than an hour talking about what it means. So there’s a learning curve just to understand what is happening and then to actually start putting into play is, is another conversation again. But at the end of the day, the first thing is to educate yourself so that you get it, you understand it, and once you understand it, it’s almost like, well, I’m, I, I, I’m Kinda gonna know what to do because if, if the picture’s going to fool me with tunnels, then I have to get better at seeing, um, I have to get better at my homework and I also have to get better at seeing little details. And so the future of hitting training is going to be actually a lot of fun. Um, one of the things that we started doing right away as we get these small little foam training balls that are about the size of a golf ball and from 18 feet and you can actually create the kind of like a big league slider movement. Whereas with a baseball throwing bp, you can never get that kind of movement. But with these small balls, you can get sinker movement and Cutter Movement and slider movement and you recreate the same time. And so you can actually have that, that is, that are closer to real life in some respects. I mean, it’s never going to be the same, obviously in a practice setting, if I can create the same angle, the same timing, the same look basically of the pitch. I’m one of the terms that eve came out with was the term shape, which was the idea of when a pitch is, it starts off, it looks kind of straight, it goes straight in the beginning, but then when the movement kicks in it, it develops into a shape like a cutter and a slider and a sinker and a four-seam fastball. They all have different shapes and with hitters recognizing pitches, you have to. You have to recognize the shape because the shape tells you what the speed is going to be and that’s difficult. It’s at that speed. It’s very difficult, but it gets easier when you have everything going at that speed. All your training. Pardon me, but that’s. That’s the future of training. That’s. That’s where it’ll. It’ll be a lot more fun when you when you really understand what’s going on. See that’s just a big match. The hitters made a move. They made a move to. They started swinging up and they started swinging. I’m in a speed range. That’s, that’s. That was their move and the pitchers have encountered yet, but when they encounter it’s going to be ugly and the counter is effective. Lastly, that’s, that’s the answer and when they do, you’re going to see some crazy things happening with that, but the, the the big takeaway for me is just educating. You got, have to have to educate. You have to get to understand that there is a lot to the game. There’s when it comes to pitchers and hitters, there’s a ton of it. And so eve is the explanation. It’s the thing that, that tells you what’s really going on. It’s like a, it’s like the gravity of hard hit balls. You don’t have to understand anything about gravity to trip and ebb is, is determining success with the pitcher and the hitter every night, whether they know it or not. In most cases, they don’t, but the people that know precisely are the ones that are going to dominate coming up. So educate, get, get the books, get, get, understand that. Um, the video program is really cool. It’s, it’s, it’s a lot easier when you describe it rather than read it, it’s a little bit difficult to read something three dimensional, like effective velocity and really understand, and I had a lot of people say to me, they read it three or four times and they still have questions because it’s, it’s, yeah, it’s hard. It’s hard to, um, without like the, you know, the idea of the t and the idea of the quarterback and the defensive back that helps, I hope more of a, it puts it more of an, a three-d atmosphere, which is what’s really happening.

Geoff:  Great. Great. Well, Ms. Dot Perry husband, I appreciate your time. I learned a lot. Um, I’m pretty sure my listeners will as well. So, um, I could do another whole podcast with you. I’m going to let you go and I appreciate your time.

Perry: You’re very welcome. It was fun. Well, uh, we’ll catch up sometime down the road,

Outro: I am Geoff Rottmayer and Thanks for listening to our conversation on The Baseball Awakening Podcast. Thank you for listening to our conversation on The Baseball Awakening podcast. Stay tuned for our recap show tomorrow.